Episode 36

August 31, 2023


Tourette's and the Christian Life - Mike Eells

Hosted by

Erik Rasmussen
Tourette's and the Christian Life - Mike Eells
The Concerning Him Podcast
Tourette's and the Christian Life - Mike Eells

Aug 31 2023 | 00:33:24


Show Notes

We're back from summer break! Mike Eells joins Erik on the Concerning Him podcast to talk about living life with Tourette Syndrome.

Concerning Him - https://concerninghim.com/

Concerning Him Podcast - https://concerninghim.com/podcast/

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Concerning Him. An Emmaus podcast is a ministry of Emmaus Bible College. Concerning Him seeks to enrich Christians around the globe by educating and equipping them through various media. For more information about Emmaus, please visit Emmaus.edu. [00:00:21] Speaker B: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Concerning Hymn podcast. Today we are joined by Mike Eels. How's it, Mike? [00:00:28] Speaker C: Great. Great fun to finally be on. This is the studio. [00:00:33] Speaker B: Well, I'm happy to have you here. We've wanted to have you for a long time. Mike Eels. I should say of Tri State Christian School or of Mayus Bible College, global Campus, great Adventure Church. Lots of things. The Eels family. [00:00:51] Speaker C: Sure, yeah. God's blessed me to be a part of all these amazing ministries and wonderful, wonderful. [00:00:58] Speaker B: How's the construction at Tri State Christian School going right now? [00:01:02] Speaker C: From what I understand, we're ahead of schedule. [00:01:04] Speaker B: Good. Yeah. [00:01:04] Speaker C: A lot of volunteer help. People have really stepped up. [00:01:07] Speaker B: You never hear that with construction, so that's good. Everybody always says behind schedule with construction. [00:01:11] Speaker C: So that's great right now, but anything could happen. And so we appreciate any prayers just for the school. We have a second campus now. [00:01:19] Speaker B: Okay. [00:01:20] Speaker C: And when the ESA bill passed, people started lining up at the door. It allowed families to come to Tri State, and it put some finances in their accounts, education accounts. So they had the choice of a private school. That's what they wanted. So we're thankful that we're busting at the seams and we've had some real growth over the summer. Expecting something like 50 new students. [00:01:45] Speaker B: Wow, that's wonderful. [00:01:46] Speaker C: Praise God. [00:01:47] Speaker B: That's great. Well, let's get started today. Just tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, your education, all these types of things, and how the Lord has kind of guided you in life so far to where you are today. [00:02:00] Speaker C: Yeah. No, it's fun when you look back at your life and you see God's hand, his gracious sovereign hand directing. And you don't always know in the moment, god, what are you doing? But I can look back and see his hand directing. So grew up in was born in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, and I wasn't born into a Christian home. We went to a local church growing up. I believe my grandparents were believers. They were saved in the Billy Graham crusade. Norval and Shirley And I remember them praying for me, mom and dad. I'm not sure where they stood. I just remember going to a particular church where the gospel wasn't preached. I heard a lot of good advice about what we needed to do. I knew some of the Bible stories. It was kind of a moralistic message. I did not understand the gospel. I didn't understand grace. Yet a little further down the road, mom and dad get a divorce. And that shook me up pretty good. I was also struggling with being a twelve year old kid, figuring out who I was, identity, all the struggles of life, struggling with some depression. As you may hear later in the program, I have Tourette's syndrome, and so that's really fun to have in junior high and high school kids are so nice and so dealing with a lot of stuff, searching. But as a result of my parents divorce, my dad was kind of at the end of himself. He had made some poor decisions. My dad was an alcoholic, and so he was at the end of his rope. Ended up my grandparents basement, started reading the Bible they'd given him when he was a younger man. And as a result, something changed. I believe my dad was born again at that point. He made a decision during those years after my parents divorce, and I noticed something different about my dad. He changed. He became a more self controlled person, gentle. You started to see the fruit of the spirit in him. And I was captivated by that, but I didn't quite understand what it was mom was thinking. I was wondering, he's just going through a religious phase. Who knows what he's going through? But about the same time, heading into high school years, I heard the Gospel for the first time. A friend named Thad Lane from my hometown of Solon at that point we lived in Solon, invited me to his youth group at an E Free church, parkview E Free in Iowa City. And I met their youth worker at the time, Doug Schillinger. And I heard the Gospel for the first time. And it was about 17 years old that I made a decision for Christ at a youth conference, impact 95 in Des Moines at Embassy Suites Hotel. And there was an invitation, and I came forward and I decided I was going to trust Christ as my savior. So it was so refreshing to go from good news excuse me, good advice, to good news about what Christ had done. So the message of grace was so refreshing. And then my youth pastor sent me off to Hidden Acres and he said, let's get you to Hidden Acres, to the Bible camp there and get you involved. And that's where I just took off and grew, read my Bible for the first time, memorized Scripture, learned how to share the Gospel with other people my age. Just grew in fellowship and got back and realized I want to go into full time ministry in some capacity. Didn't know what that would look like. Missions, pastor. Whatever. And heard about Emmaus Bible College while I was at Hidden Acres. Long story, but heard about Emmaus Bible College and the Lord made it possible for me to come. And this is where I really grew and got a theological foundation. Met my beautiful bride Julie. And here we are with seven kids. [00:05:49] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:50] Speaker C: Yeah. My joke is we're trying to get a cable. It's called Seven and Done. [00:05:56] Speaker B: That's what it's called. I was going to say, I think. [00:05:59] Speaker C: You need to double it. We're good, we got our hands full. And one of those kiddos is on his way here to Emmaus. [00:06:06] Speaker B: Yeah. Wonderful. [00:06:08] Speaker C: Noah's going to come play some basketball and looking towards a Bible science degree, wants to do maybe sports medicine or something in the sports field, exercise science. We're excited for him. [00:06:22] Speaker B: And what did you study here at Emmaus? [00:06:24] Speaker C: Just I did the Bible theology, bible theology program. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Okay. [00:06:27] Speaker C: And again, I wasn't sure what I wanted to do. Missions was at the front of my mind, but as I sat in class, I thought, boy, I would love to do what these professors do, teach the Bible. And I guess I'm doing that right now. I'm at Tristate Christian School. I'm the Dean of Spiritual Life. And then I teach Bible Theology to 7th through twelveTH grade, and then I get to teach Global Campus for Emmaus. We're going to start a new course here at the end of August, survey of Doctrine. [00:06:57] Speaker B: Wonderful. Yeah. [00:06:58] Speaker C: Excited. [00:06:59] Speaker B: Wonderful. Did you, you took Survey of Doctrine with Mr. Glock, I'm assuming, when you were here, Mr. Glock, does it feel a little intimidating to follow in his footsteps? [00:07:08] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, there's some of that. I think if there's any professor I'm most like in my teaching approach, I think it would be Mr. Glock. [00:07:19] Speaker B: I want to take a class with you. [00:07:21] Speaker C: Come on over to Global Campus. I will. I actually have two of his grandchildren oh, really? In my classes, Johnny and Anna Kate. And they're fantastic. But I'll say things and they'll say that's what my grandpa used to know. So, hey, I'm okay with that. [00:07:39] Speaker B: That's wonderful. [00:07:39] Speaker C: But all the professors here, mr. Doc Fish and Doc McLeod, they really shaped my theology and my thinking. And Mr. Catron, who's now with the Lord, those guys, huge impact on my life. And so that made me want to be a teacher, a Bible teacher. [00:07:54] Speaker B: So after Emmaus, what was next? [00:07:58] Speaker C: After Emmaus was thinking seminary. So I was struggling. Do I go to Trinity, Chicago, or do I go to Dallas? And one of the professors here know, look for the men you want to study under. And at the time I was thinking, I want to study under Wayne Grudom or Douglas Moo at Trinity. So I got there and they both left that here, went to different seminaries, but I found some wonderful men there and a good solid evangelical education. And so they didn't agree with all of our distinctives here at Emmaus. Not all of them, but that was okay with me. I wanted to be challenged on some of those non essential issues and I came back firm in my convictions on a lot of those issues. So I'm glad I went. And while I was there, I got tied in with a local church in Chicago, and that's where I did a lot of my preaching and teachings and grew and did some part time ministry and prepared me for what I would eventually do head to Atlantic, Iowa. And I was full time at the Atlantic Gospel Chapel for 13 years, and that was a joy. Love the congregation there a lot of teaching, preaching, worked with the youth group, evangelism, outreach, way too many funerals. It's an older community, and we're thinking we probably did 40 to 50 funerals. 13 years. [00:09:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:09:24] Speaker C: So I'm thankful to be here. I do miss the dear folks out there, but it's good to be here at Great Adventure. We're busting at the seams. We're growing and doing more baptisms and funerals. I like that. [00:09:37] Speaker B: Praise the Lord. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. [00:09:39] Speaker B: We do want to get to this conversation today about your life, living the Christian life with Tourette's syndrome. But before there, I'm curious, that transition from seminary at Trinity to Atlantic, being actually in ministry, what was that transition like? What were the things that were unexpected, if that makes sense? [00:10:02] Speaker C: Well, as I said, thankfully, when I was at Trinity, at first I got there and I was thinking, I'm just here to get my seminary degree to the MDiv. The THM and I had a wise elder say to me, you're here to do to if you're going to be out there serving the local church, you need to get tied into a local church. You're not just here to get a Bible education and get prepared for ministry. It's time to do it now. And so I jumped in at Norwood Gospel Chapel, which is no longer in existence, but some dear brothers there took me under their wings and taught me nursing home ministry and what it was to shepherd and do visitation and just the practical things of ministry. So they'd prepared me, I think, in a lot of ways to be full time in Atlantic. But, yeah, learning to manage my time well was a struggle because there was a lot of freedom, there was a good job description, but there was a lot of time in the day and doing a lot of marriage counseling. I wish I had taken more counseling in seminary, that's for sure. As you deal with marriage issues and people's issues, with addictions, psychological issues, depression, anxiety. So I did a lot of my own study and prepared for that, but I wish I'd been a little more prepared. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:11:23] Speaker C: Those were things that caught me off guard. [00:11:25] Speaker B: Okay. [00:11:25] Speaker C: And then just a lot of death and tragedy, an older community, and so it shaped my theology. Being out there, seeing some of the suffering and death made me stronger in my faith. [00:11:38] Speaker B: Wow. Well, 13 years in Atlantic, you come back to Dubuque, teaching at Tristate, teaching Global Campus, serving as an elder at Great Adventure Church, doing a fair amount of preaching there, I imagine, is that correct? [00:11:54] Speaker C: I'm in charge of the preaching schedule. [00:11:55] Speaker B: Okay. As much as you want or as little as you want. Yeah. [00:12:00] Speaker C: In a sense. Yeah, we try and mix it up. I've done this month. I've preached a few times. [00:12:04] Speaker B: Okay. [00:12:05] Speaker C: And I don't mind that at all. I really enjoy it. But there's plenty of opportunity to teach at the church. In the youth group, I get to help Mr. KT. Leverance over there, he's one of the elders. We manage the youth group and teach them. But every day I'm in the classroom. I teach three courses and then in Global Campus. So I love what I do. I can't believe they pay me to teach the Bible study and try and apply it to other people's lives. So the hard part is just living it out myself. [00:12:37] Speaker B: So just thinking through your whole life, kind of going along this whole time, is Tourette's syndrome having Tourette's? And I think a lot of people, when they hear Tourette's, they think like the crazy guy in the street downtown yelling curse words and things like, could you define what Tourette's? A lot of people probably have somewhat of an idea, but could you define what Tourette's is? [00:13:05] Speaker C: I think since I've been six, that's when it was diagnosed, I've been always more concerned philosophically and theologically about it. Like, I don't know that I put a ton of time into studying it, what it is. But it has something to do with the nervous system. It's a neurological syndrome, Tourette's syndrome, and it affects the neuropathways circuits. And I guess you could say I short circuit a little bit. And so it usually shows up about age six. It's more predominant among males. They think that it is genetic, passed on, but it also is probably affected by the environment, environmental factors. So I don't know anyone in my past history, family history, that had it. But I have it and two of my children have it. Theirs is less severe than mine, thankfully. Mine, I'm very blessed. While I do have it and the symptoms show up, right now I'm working to not display them all. For me, they're more twitches, ticks, facial. Sometimes it's even verbal cough, a grunt facial twitch. When I was younger, it was different. It was more of a head nod and a blink that was more obvious. And it was also vocal. And again, that's really fun to have when you're in public school. I can only imagine, but I think that's one thing the Lord used to make me a little stronger and help me find my identity in the right places. My sons, they have it and they're able to control it. There are times I forget they even have it. And so it will sometimes fade. The symptoms will fade when you get into your teenage years. For me, it morphs. The ticks are different from season to season. Mine has pretty much stayed the same since my adolescent years, although it's changed. So I'm thankful I can control it, though, if I work hard at it. Take a deep breath and focus because you don't want to freak people out. Thankfully, I don't have the verbal swearing kind. [00:15:31] Speaker B: Yes. [00:15:31] Speaker C: Which would make it tough to be a dean and a Bible teacher. [00:15:34] Speaker B: It would. [00:15:34] Speaker C: Distracting in the pulpit. [00:15:36] Speaker B: Yeah. Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Tourette's is not necessarily hinder learning. It's not going to hinder development, it's not going to hinder growth. Right. Somebody with Tourette's is not necessarily less capable of reading with comprehension or communicating or any of these types of things. Is that correct? [00:15:58] Speaker C: It doesn't seem to have any connection to learning abilities or intelligence, although there are some things that come along with it tend to, from what I understand, reading disabilities. [00:16:10] Speaker B: Okay. [00:16:11] Speaker C: ADHD, OCD those things are sometimes linked to people with Tret syndrome. I don't think I have OCD or ADHD, but I did struggle with reading disabilities when I was younger. And we think maybe there's a connection. Often it's linked to depression, anxiety, but I think that's probably more the mindset of the person with Tourette's, how they look at themselves, how people are treating them, but it doesn't affect intelligence at all. [00:16:42] Speaker B: So you've mentioned diagnosed at six, dealing with it, with bullying and things like that in elementary, middle school, maybe even high school, outside of those things, or maybe along with those things, how has Tourette's syndrome had an impact on your walk, on your faith, on just living your life? I'm curious to hear what your experience has been. [00:17:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I had a turning point when I was at Hidden Acres in high school. Saved it, like I said, 17. Got to camp, and I met an alumni of Mayas. His name was Randy Baber. Randy was one of the first persons I met at camp, and the first words we had together were he came up to me and said, hey, my name is Randy. You want to pray together? And we became fast friends. And he was a little further on in his Christian faith, and he always had great advice, and he noticed that I would react poorly to people when they would question me about my threats. I would be very defensive, or if I'd have campers, they'd tease me a little bit, and I'd get defensive or bitter or angry. So I had a little chip on my shoulder, and he challenged me. He said, this is something that God wants to use for his glory. This is a weakness, and God can use it. And I think maybe you need to embrace it. Instead of getting angry at people, use it as an opportunity to glorify God and serve people. So he taught me a little bit about just how to take myself less seriously. And so I learned to joke about it a little bit and not get angry at the kids or at people when they were generally asking, what's going on? Are you all right? And don't take it personally. So I do tend to joke a lot about it. It makes people more comfortable. It takes the focus I hope off me and it gives me an opportunity to talk about the Lord. So I have taken real joy in God's sovereignty. I remember asking my dad, who wasn't a very strong believer, if at all a believer at that point when I was first diagnosed. Obviously I think he knew he had something of a biblical worldview from his parents. I said why would God let this happen to me? And he said, because God is going to use it, son. And that always stuck in my head. He said he knew you could handle it. I don't know if I could handle it, but with the Lord's help I could. And so I think of passages like I pulled up a few that are go to's for me and this would apply to whether you have Tourette's syndrome or any disability or any weakness. I think of one Corinthians chapter one where Paul is in verse 26 talking about those who God calls and uses. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you are wise by human standards, not many of you are influential, not many of you are of noble birth. But God choose the foolish things of the world. He chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things and the things that are not to nullify the things that are so that no. 1 may boast before God. And so here's an opportunity for me to be this clay pot that contains this treasure of the Gospel. And God gets to show up in my weakness. The other passage is that passage in John Nine with the boy that's born blind, as he went along, he saw a man born blind. The disciples asked him, Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind? Neither this man nor his parents sinned, said Jesus. But this happened so that the work of God may be displayed in Him. And so he would have chose a guy like me to influence teenagers in their worldview, to be able to teach at Emmaus, or to be able to be a dean at Tristate or to preach the Gospel. I wouldn't be your first choice by worldly standards, but it's two Corinthians chapter Twelve in My Weakness he gets to show up and display his glory. And I think that's what everyone needs to keep in mind. This disability, it mirrors our spiritual disability, our inability, our depravity. And so God gets to show his initiative and his grace in our lives and his power. So I'm thankful for it. It's the thorn in the flesh of first two Corinthians twelve thorn in the flesh. I remember asking God as a child, god take it away. As a teenager, god, take this away. And like with Paul and his thorn in the flesh, paul asked God three times, take it away. And God said, no, because this is where I get to show up and display my glory in your so. [00:21:45] Speaker B: But there would be some Christians out there who would say, mike, look at all the healing miracles that Jesus does in the Gospels, right? Look at the early apostles and the healing that they're doing. You need to have enough faith. You need to pray harder, and God will remove this. And if you're not, then there's something are you really a believer, or do you really have enough faith? Or maybe you're weak in your faith? All these things, how do you handle and react and think about that? [00:22:13] Speaker C: And I've heard those things directly to you. Not so much directly to me, but in pastoral ministry. I remember dealing with a son and his mother. They were coming to our church. He had been diagnosed with stage four cancer, leukemia, and she was in a wheelchair, Ms and could not walk. And they had gotten into a denomination where, well, these particular pastors were telling them, it's a lack of faith. This young man can be healed and you can walk if you just have enough faith. And I've had those questions myself. Do I have not enough faith? And passages like this shape my theology. I do believe that God could heal if it were his will. He can. I don't want to put God in a box. However, he often doesn't. Well, I will eventually be healed. One day I get this brand new resurrection body. No more Tret syndrome, no more cancer for my friends, no more arthritic backs, no more problems like that. Nothing a good resurrection can't fix. But we see that God does decree. I do believe God decrees that people have certain weaknesses. Think of Psalm 139. God has woven us together in our mother's womb. God is not the only agent in the universe. I don't think God's zapping people with disabilities and afflictions. But I do think that he permits. He allows, he decrees. I think of Ephesians, chapter one, verse eleven. He works all things after the counsel of his will. I don't think it was a surprise to Him that I have Tret syndrome. I think that he wired me in my mother's womb in such a way that at the end of the day, I had Tret syndrome and he could use it for his glory. So God is not the cause of evil. He cannot tempt us, nor can he be tempted in any way, james says. But we do live in a fallen world, and it's part of God's plan. And so that's one reason I have Trettes is because we live in a fallen, broken world. But I also think God decreed that I should have this for his glory. [00:24:39] Speaker B: Another one, then maybe you've heard this directly to you or just in general, but with certain disabilities or things like that, especially, I think of Tourette's. You might hear people talking about demon possession. Right. I mean, I remember I've got I know a family well who has a son who has autism. Sure. And there was a man that came to the church where the family was attending and accused the family of, your son is a demon, and this is your fault, and there's something going wrong in your home and all of these very strong accusations. And there are Christians out there who believe this. And what are your thoughts on that? And how do you handle that, especially in something like Tourette's that might show up? You see somebody, you think of that stereotypical person with Tourette's and somebody in the streets and yelling swear words and, man, that looks like demon possession, right. And all these things. What's your response to that? How do you think through that? [00:25:41] Speaker C: I mean, I do believe in Satan, demons, demon possession. I think that as a believer, especially as a leader in a church, you want to look at all other options before diagnosing demon possession in a child. And I can understand why someone might think that, especially if someone has the verbal form of threats where they do swear. I can understand the lack of some people cannot control themselves, and that's why I'm so thankful I can take a deep breath and control it and manage it. But, yeah, I think it's a case by case thing, but I would definitely not jump straight to that. I mean, people can open themselves up to demon possession. You want to check out what's going on in that family's home, what's going on, that child's life. But there are just people just live in a fallen world where there are disabilities and where there's tret syndrome. And so I would be really careful about something like that. I am not demon possessed. I am possessed by the Holy Spirit of. [00:26:56] Speaker B: That'S it's good. Thank you. I appreciate that. I guess I'm just curious, throughout your life, then, would you wish that you didn't have Tourette syndrome? [00:27:11] Speaker C: There are times you feel like that because it wears you out. Even as you're managing it and holding back, it wears you out a little bit. And even to have the ticks, just let them go. There's some release in that. It's kind of like an itch. You feel like there's an urge, but even at the end of the day, depends on the tick. But you're just exhausted from a whole day of that particular tick, and you're sore, and sometimes you hurt. And there are days you're like, oh, looking forward to that resurrection body, that new heavens, that new earth. There's that feeling. But at the same time, as we've said, we can see how I can see how God has used it in my life. He's humbled me, and he's caused me to rely on Him. He's caused me to run to his sovereign grace because no, I praise God that he's allowed me to have it. And so it's an opportunity to know Him in a deeper level, in weakness, to understand well the fellowship of his suffering. And it's taken away opportunity for people to praise me. And I cannot say, well, listen, I'm weak, I'm frail. Praise God for what he did through me. So I'm thankful that God has said no to me asking, take it away now. I'll show up in your weakness. [00:28:36] Speaker B: As we wrap up here, unless there's more you'd like to get into, I'd maybe like to ask you to be a bit more pastoral in nature for a minute for those listening right. And taking this struggle that you've had throughout your life and maybe talking to people who have other struggles. Maybe it's not even something that's diagnosed or anything like that. Just life difficulties. But maybe lessons learned. And a lot of this is stuff that we're talking about already, stuff that you're talking about already, but lessons that you've learned from this and how you really feel like, okay, for those out there struggling with whatever it is, all of these things. So many people have so many different struggles, I don't even want to put a name to it necessarily. But lessons learned from having Tourette's syndrome and kind of applying to that, if that makes sense. [00:29:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I was thinking about it today and what would I say to someone who had a disability or a syndrome or some weakness, anxiety, depression, which can. [00:29:40] Speaker B: Be. [00:29:43] Speaker C: Disabling on so many levels. There was an article I read recently, it was in the Gospel Coalition. And here are four truths that you'd want to share with someone in a situation like that. Number one, God made all of us in his image. Someone has a disability, a struggle that doesn't affect their value, their dignity. You're made in God's image, you have value, you have dignity. I would want them to know that this is an effect of the fall. We live in a broken world that will one day be restored. One day you won't have this disability, this struggle anymore. I would want them to know that God is sovereign over how each of us is formed. So it's not a surprise god has woven us together in our mother's womb. I also think of Exodus, chapter four, verse eleven. This is such an amazing passage. The Lord said to Moses, who remember, didn't feel eloquent and ready to go serve the Lord who has made man's mouth, who makes him mute or deaf or seen or blind, is it not I, the Lord. So every chromosome, every gene, every atom, god commands at his will. So I understand there's a scientific explanation behind why my pathways are firing misfiring. You could explain it that way, but I also believe God is sovereign. And however you. Want to put it allowed, permitted, certainly decreed that I should have it. There's a real comfort in knowing God has a plan for this and is using it for his glory and for greater purposes. That I think people's anxiety and how they handle disability is directly related to how they look at God. I believe God is sovereign and I would say, number four, remember, God is still good. He's using it for his glory. And I think of James, consider it pure joy, brothers and sisters, when you face trials of various kinds, because you know that testing of your faith develops perseverance, let that perseverance so there's a choice. Let that perseverance under the strain, have its full work so that you might be mature and complete, not like in anything. So I can either run from God and get mad at God in the middle of this trial, or I can lean into Him, I can run to Him and trust Him, that he's going to use this for my good and his glory. So what you believe about God is the most important thing about you. It's going to shape the way you handle these problems. So remember those four things. And there's so much more I could say. But when someone is struggling with things like that, pastorally speaking, the most important thing I can do right off the bat is just be a good friend. Sometimes they don't want to hear my theological points. Eventually, you need to shape their thinking. They need a biblical worldview so they can handle life and disability and struggle and weakness. But you also just need to be there for them, no matter what. Be a good friend. Care, love them unconditionally. Do you need a hug, brother? [00:32:52] Speaker B: I appreciate thank you so much, Mike. I really appreciate it. [00:32:55] Speaker C: It's an honor. [00:32:56] Speaker B: We're going to have you on again, but that was wonderful. [00:32:58] Speaker C: Good. [00:32:59] Speaker B: All right. [00:32:59] Speaker C: Thank you. [00:33:02] Speaker A: Thank you for listening to concerning him an Emmaus podcast. Ministries like Concerning Him are possible because of the generous contributions from our partners around the world. For more information about partnering with us, please visit emeas.edu slash partner.

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