Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: How should those in leadership positions or of some sort of influence in the church or in ministry be encouraging the next generation of ministry leaders? Should they be encouraging the next generation of ministry leaders? I'm Eric Raspussen. This is the concerning him podcast. And today we have on Travis Holton, an Emmaus alum who currently works at Apex missions. And he talks about a problem that he's seeing across a lot of churches and a lot of ministries, which is that people aren't encouraging the next generation of ministry leaders. So in today's conversation, we dive into what's going on, what's the issue? What should this discipleship like relationship look like where the older generation is encouraging the younger generation? If you listen to us on Apple podcasts or Spotify, we'd really appreciate it if you gave us a rating or review, and we'd be very thankful if you watch these on YouTube. If you'd like the video or subscribe to the channel. Remember, the concerning hymn podcast is brought to you by Emmaus Bible College. Here at Emmaus, it's our goal to impact the world for Christ in everything we do, whether it's teaching Bible and theology in the classroom, or it's preparing young christian men and women for future professional careers, or it's through ministries like concerning him. For more information about Emmaus, please visit emmaus.edu. And if you're interested in listening to more podcast episodes like this one, or reading biblically focused articles or listening to biblically centered messages, please visit concerninghem.com.
And welcome Travis Holton.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Thank you. Hello, Eric.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: Happy to have you on. You are the second former soccer player teammate of mine that I've had on Logan. Matineer was on in the fall.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: I like him. You should be number one for sure.
Way more interesting.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Thanks for coming on the podcast today. I'm excited to have you on. I'm excited to talk about a little bit about you, a little bit about apex missions, right. And then just about kind of preparing the next generation of future leaders. And maybe even part of that conversation is what are we not doing well right now? But before we get into all of that, I'd love for you just talk about who you are. Who's Travis Holton and what are you doing these days?
[00:02:21] Speaker B: Yeah, that's pretty deep. Yeah, I can start just a little bit from beginning. Grew up in a christian home, went to church four times a week. So Sunday morning, Sunday afternoon for choir practice, and I'm not great at singing. But then Sunday evening, it would youth group on Tuesday nights and then prayer meeting on Wednesday nights. So just grew up understanding what church was anyway. And so from a pretty early age, I understood enough to talk to my mom. I was like, okay, I know I want to be a Christian. I know I want to want Jesus in my heart. And. And so talked to her about that. I really remember it because, like 5 minutes later, I was in the ER. I was getting stitches. So I was kind of one of those kids that was all over the place.
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Are you trying to physically put Jesus in your.
[00:03:05] Speaker B: No, no. He was very good about it.
[00:03:06] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: That was an easy process. But I do remember it being, like, kind of an exciting thing. And so I was like, we're at the park, and I was jumping from a bleacher to another bleacher and didn't quite make it. And so I still have a scar to remind me of it. But like I said, within 5 minutes, like, bright light above me, doctor stitching me up.
[00:03:23] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: But it really wasn't until I was in middle school that I really felt a real sense of like, okay, what does it mean to be a Christian? I was at camp, actually. I don't remember who was speaking or what they're talking about, but just a real clear sense of, like, God asking me to do something. And so I just prayed a simple prayer, like, I'll do whatever you want me to do. I'll go wherever you want me to go. And that was it. And that's significant in two ways. Number one is just a real sense of, okay, this is a relationship. This is something different than just going to church all the time because your parents are taking you.
It's also significant because in 6th grade, you've been in that age before, and they're not too bright usually, or we're still growing. But then the other thing is, I had no one to share that with. I had no one to really disciple me. That wasn't a culture thing that we had in our church. So it was a real kind of a shift in what I thought it was to be a Christian. And then it kind of developed in me, the need and the desire to do that later with other people.
So anyway, grew up just attending church all the time, volunteered in youth group from 18. Like, as soon as I graduated, I just thought, you know what? I'm going to be in youth group. I'm going to help. I want to be a part of this April as well. And if you don't know, I'm married. You know my wife, right? And three kids, Emma, Lilly and Calvin. So over the next ten years, just was like, just consistently just working and then volunteering a youth group.
And it is at a point where I started working with a youth pastor that was just really into discipleship. That got me interested into, okay, we're going to sit down, we're going to study the Bible. We're going to grow together, we're going to learn together. And after maybe a year or so, he kind of looked at me and said, you know, you could get paid to do this. I was like. I was like, first of all, you get paid to do this. Like, you're paid to meet with me. Kind of joking, but he's like, no, I'm serious. I see these things in you, and you should think about it. And after ten years of serving, I had never considered going into full time ministry.
So then I started to. Started thinking about it, started praying about it.
It was a struggle. I didn't want to. I grew up on a farm, so I'm the oldest in my family. Family farm. It's been in our family about 145 years. And so biblically, I should take over, right? That was always my plan. It was like, I'm just going to farm someday I'll keep helping with youth group, but I'm going to farm. So I had to kind of release that and give up. Like, wait a second. If God is asking me to do something different, what is it? So after a couple months of just really praying about, it just felt led to start checking out some options. And we googled Bible colleges in Iowa and Mayas Bible College came up. Never heard of it.
My wife, her family had been in brethren assemblies before, but I had not grew up in a conservative Baptist church. So the whole thing was new to me, but we got in contact with a director of admissions at that time, was, I don't know if you know him, Israel Chavez. So young. Israel was fantastic.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: He was still bald back then.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Yeah, he looked the same, but he just did a great job of explaining what Emmaus was. And he's like, just come visit. Just come visit. And he kind of bugged us for a while and was like, you know what? I don't know. I don't know if that's where we want to go. We're checking into some other options. But we were coming through Dubuque and just decided, okay, we're going to stop. So this guy stops bugging me.
But as soon as we got in, as soon as we walked through the doors, I just felt a sense of peace, like, okay, wait a. Like, this is super clear all of a sudden.
So Israel obviously did a good job of the tour, but before we even got started, I kind of knew that this is where we're going to go. So we packed up our kids, we sold our house, and we moved to Dubuque.
So when I got here, bible, theology, youth ministry right away. So I had Old Testament survey two. First, Dr. Sanchez started second semester, which is great. Loved. Like, had never really thought about the Bible in that way either.
So kind of exciting. Then we got to the end of the semester, and Dr. Sanchez is like, okay, we're going to test you over the whole Old Testament. I was like, wait a second. I only know old Testament two so far. He's like, nope, you got to take the whole thing. But was very gracious in his grading, so passed that. And then the next semester had Dr. Van Dyne just fantastic. Just like, just walking through the Bible in that way was just like, got me set. And I was like, okay, this is awesome. I'm ready to do that's. That's kind of my story into how we got where we're at.
[00:08:02] Speaker A: And then for your program, did it take you four years?
[00:08:06] Speaker B: It took me three. So I had some. And then at that time, I forgot to mention I met Eric. Yeah, they let me play soccer, which was my first time. Loved it. Got to hang out with students. Just the whole experience that just made it so much better. I got to drive the bus. I was old enough to drive the bus.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: You were older than our coach.
[00:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah, at the time, but it was a really good experience.
Soccer was great. Classes were fantastic. Just really set me up for what God had planned for me. And so all these little things, just even soccer has just been a great way for me to connect with students and had never done it before because I grew up wrestling, and there's not a lot of pickup wrestling that you can do without getting arrested or something like that.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: Three years here, studied under Jeff Riley. Right. And just talk about that a little bit. What was your experience like?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: Yeah, it was great. So I got a mix. That first semester was before he came.
[00:09:11] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:11] Speaker B: So I had Lev first semester, and then Riley came in, and it was a great experience, especially because as an older student, I was 30 at the time. So I remember specifically, I had one assignment. We had to read a book, how to ruin your life by 30 and then do a book report. And I tried to get out of it, but Riley was like, no, you still got to do it. I was like, I already ruined my life, but I'm getting it figured out now, but, yeah, just a great experience. Just the philosophy of ministry was a big thing that I see. I guess as I meet with other people in youth ministry, they don't always have that, but just the focus, not on just the program, but the why and then some of the how behind doing it.
[00:09:51] Speaker A: You talked about meeting with other people in youth ministry. I'd love to hear some about apex missions and specifically what your role is there and kind of how you got into being involved with them.
[00:10:02] Speaker B: Okay, well, to go back then a little was after Emmaus. I actually worked here at Emmaus in advancement for a little while, or admissions for a little while, which was also a great experience, but then also had the sense of there was definitely ministry. And you guys know, too, there's ministry here at Emmaus, but just a different sense to, like, I've been studying youth ministry. Maybe I should try that out.
And so for over the next decade, I was in two different churches as a youth pastor.
And it was actually on a trip, I think maybe in 2018, like, I'd heard about Apex.
I checked into it a little bit, but it wasn't until I went on a trip. So I took our youth group down to Miami, and that's when just another clear sense of this was super oriented towards training and discipleship over just, like, going and serving, know, like the whole, when helping, like, are we actually doing something good? So the youth group high school missions experiences are usually, you go somewhere, you do some ministry, you might help somebody, but you usually pick up garbage or paint a fence or some of those things. So to kind of get out of that stigma, Apex has kind of reversed that or flipped it. And so their motto is one for 51. So one week is greater than 51. So it's one week of training for 51 weeks of service. So the goal is to bring students to a ministry that is serving in their local context and then train students to do that and then send them back home on mission because you still train when you're at home. But just the discipleship aspect was just fantastic. And so just being able to see that modeled well was something that inspired me. Okay, check into it. So it took Apex. We're all as staff, we're all missionaries, so we have to support, raise, and go through the whole process. So it was a couple of years later that I'd gone through the process. I'd been accepted and started raising support. So in 2020, I officially started, but then continued in youth ministry until we were supported, which took about three years, and then my role is director of advancement.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:12:06] Speaker B: So if you can tell me what that means, I would love to focus. My role specifically focuses, actually, a lot of what I learned at Emmaus in admissions, just the idea of talking to students, encouraging them to apply, to do something, just having a relationship with them, but then also focusing on the kind of students that we know. Emmaus doesn't accept anybody. There's some qualifications. So I do a lot of recruitment, advancement type things, a lot of partnerships. So working with colleges, working with churches, working with organizations, focusing a lot on developing programs, internships.
Emmaus is great. The ICS program, three month internship is one of the longest internships that I've seen in the colleges, with colleges. So we would help place them where they need to go. Reach global is an organization that we work with. They have 580 missionaries in 40 different countries. So a lot of opportunity, from teaching to youth ministry to church planting to craft design, agronomy, almost everything. There's a huge list of where you could go. So it doesn't even have to be like a missions thing. It could be a business program that you could get an internship for as well.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: So the other day, you and I were talking, you were actually helping me take some seats out of way more complicated.
And you were mentioning that you've noticed an issue compared to what you experienced when you were younger.
You were kind of talking maybe specifically about you being encouraged to go into youth ministry. But in general, when we're thinking about the next generation of ministry leaders, and I say that kind of as a broad term to mean elders, youth ministry leaders, camp leaders, pastors, teachers, preachers, all of these things to kind of encompass all of that. What is this issue that you've noticed that we were talking about the other day?
[00:14:12] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, number one, there are a lot of openings for full time ministry. So there's a lot of churches, a lot of groups of people that are looking for people to step up, whether it's children's ministry, whether it's youth ministry. And you and I even mentioned, too, I'm noticing even younger, younger men stepping up to be elders. It's something that they should aspire to do, and we're not really talking about it until they get to a certain age, at least in my experience. Like, you got to wait until you have a lot of gray in your beard, and then all of a sudden you might be available then.
So this sense of, like, there's not a lot of people asking.
So, number one, young people aren't stepping into these roles, and they're stepping into more business oriented, and I would even say not even full time. It's hard for churches to find some qualified young adults to step into volunteer ministry as well.
So that's an issue that I think that we've been trying to tackle, that we've been trying to work through and think about. And I think it comes down to as leaders in the church, as adults in a church, we're not asking them to. It's like we got to wait until they're ready before we ask them to consider it.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Why do you think that is? Why do you think people are hesitant to encourage early?
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah, partly because I think we have this sense of, like, if they're not ready yet, we don't want to ask them yet. If they're not ready to step into a role, then we're not going to just kind of protect ourselves, protect the ministry. There's a lot, especially in today's age, there's a lot of things you should know that if you're younger, you just don't quite have that discernment yet. So there's a little maybe fear of that and then also a fear of maybe just telling somebody what they should do.
Am I qualified to tell you what you should do with your life?
And so there's a mix of that, but then there's some things that you can do to like, to help students. Like you're not really telling them to do something. You're encouraging them in their gifting.
[00:16:13] Speaker A: You talk about encouraging them in the gifting.
You think about, okay, people aren't necessarily doing a good job encouraging.
If somebody out there is listening to this and they say, well, I have some sort of influence in a church or in a ministry, maybe I should be encouraging younger people. What am I looking for? How do I do this in a healthy way? Am I just going out and telling everybody blindly, you should be a preacher. You should be like Oprah Winfrey or something like that.
Or what is a healthy way to do this?
[00:16:49] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good question. I've been thinking a lot about that. Partly for what we're doing with apex is we are trying to kind of find and encourage the next generation of missionaries. That's our goal, is to help kind of replace missionaries as they're coming off the field, but also get students to consider it, knowing that you can finish your degree and use whatever degree you have to spread the gospel and you can do it here in the US or internationally. So as I've been thinking about that, it's getting over some of those fears that people might have and just thinking of a process and what does that actually look like? And to me, it also needs to be pretty simple. And it is simple, and it can be pretty natural. So as I talk to churches, I talk to church leaders. I encourage them to do a couple of things.
The first thing I do is just kind of like, talk about the need. There is a need.
Every place needs some young adults to step up in some way.
But then if you think about them, they're also, like, asking these questions like, what should I do?
I'm going for this degree, but what should I do with it when I'm done? They have this sense of like, but what am I also called to do? How am I going to serve? And how am I going to use my gifting to serve God as well? And then there's also the sense of, you know, I want to live my life with Jesus and for Jesus. And what does that practically look and like as a young adult? That's kind of hard to wrap our minds around, I think even for adults sometimes. Like, how do we incorporate all of life with our faith?
So it's really just getting church leaders to think about students and where they're at. There is a need. If we don't ask, they're not just going to do it on their own. Very few are just going to be like, okay, I'm ready to lead. And then the other obstacle then is like, if I'm going to lead, you need to get out of the way. So there's a sense of like, okay, if you're not inviting me and I feel led into this, then I'm going to have to forcefully get in there in some way or just not do it. So just really getting church leaders to think about, okay, think about the young adults that are connected to you. Like high school, even middle school. Like I said, for me, it was in middle school, if someone would have come alongside of me, it would have made a huge difference in that decision to move into ministry.
But young adults as well, just consider them. Look at them.
They're not going to be perfect. But what qualities do they have? What giftings do they have? What opportunities have they stepped up in?
For example, like in youth ministry, there's a lot of students, there's a few students that are super loud and super energetic. And what I've noticed is if they're that way in middle school, that can turn into some really fantastic qualities as they get into high school, as they get into college age, because they kind of hone down the craziness into just exert energy and get people involved. Galvanizing type energy. They're the ones that are going to be willing to pray in a large group. They're going to be the ones willing to greet people as they come in. So there's different skills and different things needed. So number one, just consider who's around you, who you have influence on.
You don't need to be in a discipleship relationship. You just need to know them. So consider it, pray about it, think about it and then encourage them. Just invite them to meet up with you. Just say, hey, I have a few things to talk to you about. This is what I've noticed in you. You are good at this. I see you excelling in this. I could see like if you just worked on this a little bit, that would be just fantastic to encourage others and then actually ask them. It's one thing to encourage them to be like, hey, would you consider this? So whether think about your local church.
Do we need somebody to do this? Do we need someone to fill in for children's ministry? Do we need someone for nursery? Do we need someone to lead worship? All these things that they're maybe not ready for taking over, but just to practice.
And so from that asking, then just follow through. Just keep praying for them, keep checking in with them as opportunities come up that you notice, just to offer it to them and try to give them the opportunity just to serve.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: So it's interesting, I feel like I've been around a number of churches and ministries who are struggling, who their heyday is behind them, and I've had many conversations with older people who have said, it's just so sad. The young people just don't care. They're not invested. They all left. They all went to another ministry or another church, or they've left the church, they've left the faith.
They just don't care about this. We cared about this. Don't you remember in the, there are all these things going on and everything was great and what happened. Why does nobody care anymore? And oftentimes, obviously, I think in situations like this, it's very nuanced. There isn't one person to blame. A lot of times, though, the blame ends up being on the young people. The young people didn't carry this on. They didn't see the value. They didn't see the importance. They didn't step up. And what you seem to kind of be saying is, well, what did you do to encourage them? Or what could you maybe now rather than trying to play a blame game. Looking at people who have young people in their churches or in their ministries and saying, what can you be doing to be encouraging them to take those steps, to be encouraging them to think about this, to think about the responsibility and kind of forcing them to mature a little bit? In a way, it's not just going to happen. It's kind of what happened with you, right? I'm just going to go work in the farm, and then youth pastor comes to you and says, really think you should do this. See some qualities, I see some gifting, and maybe you're probably more mature as a result these days.
[00:22:37] Speaker B: Hope so.
[00:22:39] Speaker A: You still have a relationship with him?
[00:22:40] Speaker B: Yeah, fantastic guy.
[00:22:42] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's awesome.
How is this an aspect of discipleship that happens? Really? I'm thinking, like, in the local church, as people who are older and wiser in the faith are discipling people younger in the faith. Not everybody needs to be discipling everybody. But how is this encouragement for ministry? Encouragement to think about the future and to think about full time ministry, all those types of things. How is that an aspect of discipleship? How does it work into a discipleship relationship?
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Yeah, great question. And to go back just a little bit, too. I appreciate what you're saying. We need to start looking at this not as like, whose fault is it if people are leaving, if they're not staying, if they're not as engaged? It's not like a fault issue, but more of like, yeah, what can we do? How can we improve? How can we be intentional? And that does step into discipleship for me is very specific in ministry. I've seen a lot of people talk about discipleship, and there's so many different terminologies for it, so many different ways to do it. There's so many books that talk about it.
And so for me, just kind of simplified a little bit as far as it really boils down to an intentional relationship, because I can hang out with a high school student and teach him how to change his oil, and as a christian guy, I can do it and be a good influence on him. But if I am not interested in his spiritual growth as well, or I'm not intentional as saying, like, I am interested in that, I want to help you grow in this way. So here's some things that you can, and he could be great. We can use that to serve people in the church. We can change oil for free. We can do all these sorts of things. But if there's not just an intentionality towards growing in your faith without being able to understand what it means to study the Bible and pray and just be in worship together. If we're not doing those things, then I would say that's more of like a mentorship mentality for me to cipher. And that's great. That can be used and be helpful in the church. But if we don't have any of this intention, like, I'm going to think about you, I'm going to pray about you, I'm going to encourage you in your spiritual walk as well, then it's a little bit more effective, at least what I've seen. And it really boils down to relationships. So it's not too late. Even if people are leaving your church, if the young adults aren't there, it's just pointing to the ones that are. Or if they seem disinterested, they are definitely interested in relationship.
So if it is like, care for one another and they can see that you actually do care about them, rather than care about changing them to like, stop doing this, don't do this, don't wear jeans with holes in it at church, that kind of thing. If you're just like, how are you doing? Let's read through the, like, we read through John here. What does that say to, like, how does that encourage you? And just like, that time together is what I think is just needed in this. And even in the process of asking young adults to join in ministry, it doesn't even need to be that intense. So as someone in the local church, you don't need to ask a young adult to meet with you three times a week in Bible studies on Sunday morning or Saturday morning or whenever, and then encourage them in a ministry. It can be like, I know you.
I'm going to engage you in conversation. I've seen you interact with students here. So I'm just going to take some time, just connect with you and say, I see these things outside of like, a real intense discipleship relationship.
[00:26:12] Speaker A: That's interesting. I appreciate that. I'd be curious to hear maybe some real specific, and this is kind of along what you're going already, but some specific actions for people who are saying, I'm not doing this. Well, right now, my church, my ministry, whatever it is, we've been kind of stuck in where we are, and we're not really necessarily thinking about the next generation.
Real practical, active steps, and you kind of walked through these before, but just to kind of do it in a succinct way, practical, active steps that these people can be doing to help have these types of conversations and be preparing the next generation.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: First thing is just pray about it.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:48] Speaker B: Obviously, great way to start. Just pray about it and consider where students are at, where the young adults in your church and young adults could be anywhere from 16 to 30, depending on how old you are. There's not a limit, really, if you're 75 and you want to pour into the younger generation of 50 year olds, this is another way to do that because we are seeing, I am seeing. Anyway, there's some, I guess, like second wave vocational people getting into ministry. So they've been a teacher their entire life and they're going to step into retirement, but they're not going to just retire on a beach. They're going to retire into ministry. So I think it is a wide range. Like, anybody can do this, but number one is just start praying about it, thinking about it, consider it. What would it look like?
Ask who's in front of me, who do I connect with or who do I see? And then be intentional in watching them a little bit, not in a creepy way, but as you see them engage in ministry, and that might mean stepping outside. So if you're an adult that has never been to youth group, just maybe stop in sometime. Just like, watch how it's doing. Encourage them. You don't have to volunteer full time.
Watch on Sunday morning, step in a Sunday school class and kind of see what's going on. Depending on what's going on, just like view the people around you. So number one, pray about it. Consider them. Consider the students who you want to talk to. And then when something has caught your attention, then be intentional. Reach out to them, encourage them. Say, hey, this is what I see in you. So just go out for coffee in the hall at church. Just take 10 minutes, sit down and say, like, hey, I want to be clear, and I want to be serious. I'm serious about this. I think you would be really good in ministry of some sort. I think that you'd be good as a volunteer.
And then from there, then maybe just like you built them up, you've encouraged them, you're clear about it, then say, okay, do you want to try this? So there should maybe be a next step if possible, to let them try something and then follow through. Just like check in on them if there is an opportunity, make sure they get that opportunity. So talk about steps, pray about it, consider, encourage, ask them, and then fall through. Okay, kind of the five.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
And then maybe the flip side of this, a young person you mentioned earlier, you've noticed that there seems to be a higher percentage of young people just going into regular vocations and not really considering, at least seriously considering full time ministry. I feel like I've noticed the same thing.
What would your advice be to a young person who is 16, 1718 maybe they're in college, whatever the age is, but they're not sure what they should be doing. They're feeling the weight and the pressure of making money, having financial success and there's some benefit to that too. Maybe they have a family or they want to have a family and they're feeling pressured. I've got to provide for my family. So they're thinking through all of these things and maybe somebody has encouraged them in the ministry. Maybe somebody hasn't encouraged them in the ministry. But how would you help give advice to young people kind of thinking through that whole process?
[00:30:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Number one, it's worth it if you're considering it. It's not always going to be easy, but it doesn't have to be hard either. Sometimes it is. I've gone through years in ministry where it's been really difficult, but it's also been good coming out of it. So number one, don't be afraid of that.
Don't be afraid of making money. Money is not everything. It's important, but it's not everything.
So there's a couple of things that I think of when you ask that question is if you're considering it, number one, you should find an adult to talk to someone that has life experience because we've all been there at 16 1718 and the ones that we're talking about, the ones that are considering ministry are probably a little bit more mature, but they don't have that life experience yet. So I can look back at my life and say, okay, it was worth it. It was worth checking it out. It was worth doing it.
Here are some steps to do that kind of thing. So number one, just find an adult, it's worth doing it and then just try it out. You don't have to commit full time, long term, forever, but just do little steps. And that's one of the encouragements that I got actually before I came to Emmaus because it was a year or two process from being asked to consider ministry to actually coming to Emmaus.
And our head pastor, we talked to him, he's like, this is great. I think you're gifted in these ways. I think you should pursue that. But bloom where you're planted, you're here right now. Don't neglect where you're at now in order to look to the future. So just step into ministry.
And then on the flip side too part of that question, I don't know how many 16 year olds we have listening to the podcast, but as an adult, an adult that is listening just kind of understand them a little bit. Like they don't know.
They might seem confident and they know what they're going to do but they really don't. So just encourage them to do some of these things and go a long way.
[00:32:16] Speaker A: I think that's really helpful. Well, I want to thank you for coming on the podcast. This has been great.
I think we'll have you on again. Okay, you passed the test.
[00:32:26] Speaker B: Good to know.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: No thanks Travis.
[00:32:31] Speaker B: Thank you for listening to concerning him an Emmaus podcast. Ministries like concerning him are possible because.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Of the generous contributions from our partners around the world.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: For more information about partnering with us.
[00:32:46] Speaker A: Please visit emeas.edu partner.
